How Your Personality Affects Your Career

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Podcast transcript

Katherine Bouglai:

All right. Hello, everybody. And welcome to Conversations with Blossom Career. This is Katherine Bouglai. I am the owner and founder of Blossom Career. And welcome to episode two. We’re going to talk about how your personality affects your career, which is the topic I’m very excited about. But first I want to go back a little bit and just do a little bit of a review about the first episode. So, last episode, we talked about the six pillars of a thriving career, which is passion, value, growth, environment, compensation, and work-life balance.

Whenever I do these presentations, whenever I talk about the six pillars, it sounds so simple. Are the six pillars the same for everybody? And the answer is yes, they are. However, the way they show up for different people is very different. So, one person may have a certain preferences. There may be happy in one type of environment, and then somebody else is going to be very unhappy in the same environment. What’s going to force or cause one person to quit their job because they’re not happy with their boss or they’re not growing very fast, or whatever, somebody else is going to last longer in that same work environment. So, why is this happening?

The answer to this question is your personality type and your communication style, which brings me to introduce our special guests today, Kathy Clayton, with Kathy Clayton Coaching. Kathy is an Enneagram coach. She’s a life coach and a relationship coach. She works with Enneagram and helps people get unstuck in their lives and in their career, and to move forward. Kathy, welcome to the show.

Kathy Clayton:

Katherine, thank you so much. I’m glad to be here.

Katherine Bouglai:

Kathy, what can you tell us about the Enneagram?

Kathy Clayton:

Oh my goodness. How much time do I have?

Katherine Bouglai:

45 minutes.

Kathy Clayton:

Okay. I think I can keep it within that. So, the Enneagram is at its simplest a personality type indicator, but really it’s a map of humanity. It comes out of observing how humans naturally are. And what’s interesting is so often people say, “Well, I don’t want to be put in a box.” And what the Enneagram does is identify the box you’re already in, so that all of a sudden you have an understanding of, “Oh, this is my unique point of view. This is how I’m wired. This is how I approach my life.”

Now, the Enneagram, “ennea” is Greek for nine. So, this is a nine sided object. And this recognizes nine unique points of view. We have all nine types within us to greater or lesser degree. And that really is the beauty of the Enneagram, is that it allows us to meet ourselves through a new lens, and then understand who we are, not just right now in our life, but it makes sense of where have we come from. More importantly, it provides a path of growth going forward.

Katherine Bouglai:

Great. Thank you, Kathy. That was awesome. I am very familiar with Enneagram. And we work together, so I’m going to say that. And that was really profound experience for me as well. I just want to add a couple of things. When you know your type or you know your style, whatever it is, and how people think about being put into a box, of course, nobody wants to be put into a box, but the problem is what I can really identify is how we put ourselves into a box. And sometimes it’s easy to do it, even if you know what your type is. Don’t use it as an excuse.

I work with DiSC assessment with my clients. So, that’s the first thing I do. I do DiSC assessment coupled with personal work evaluation based on the six pillars. And then when I have session with my clients, I look at both the workplace evaluation, so what was working, what wasn’t working. And then I look at their personality, not personality, but communication style. It is related to your personality, but this gives is a lot simpler. So, there’s four styles, but there are layers to them.

Kathy Clayton:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Katherine Bouglai:

Absolutely. And it’s not just what your predominant style is, but it’s a combination that really creates who you are as a person.

Kathy Clayton:

Yeah.

Katherine Bouglai:

So, what I wanted to say, what I discovered, so I am a type four on the Enneagram, which was like, wow, if you know anything about it. And I am also I on a DiSC. So, the combination of both makes me who I am, which I means very much people oriented, loves people, loves being around people and really loves connections with people.

Type four on the Enneagram makes more on a dramatic side, a little moody, melancholic. And sometimes I withdraw. And when I withdraw from my community, is when I pretty much sabotage both my success and my personal life as well. So, I have to be really, really careful about these things and because I need people, and I need to have these connections with people. That’s why I love coaching because I do my best when I work one-on-one with people and really get to know them, and hear what they’re dealing with, and really giving them all these feedback, what I see, the brilliance in them. But at the same time I need to work on and be really consciously aware of how I sometimes withdrawal from the community.

Kathy Clayton:

Those are really great insights to have. And that’s one of the powers and beauty of, quite frankly, many assessments out there. Anytime we can get accurate information about ourselves, that we can then apply, that makes all the difference. And the tendency is oftentimes to zero in on the things that we perceive as the negatives of the type, because it’s just like, that’s all we can see. As humans, we tend to filter for the negative and we completely ignore the positive.

Many of the things that are so amazing about fours, is that you’re so empathetic. That you really can sense what is happening in the space, where are people at? And you can meet them in that place. Fours are not afraid of big emotion. They’re not afraid of the darker emotions. You are some of the safest people in the world, in order to have those hard conversations with, because you’re not afraid to go into that place of melancholy or maybe the darker stuff of death. Doesn’t mean you like it, but you’re not afraid of it, which is in sharp contrast to my type, which is the seven. And I’m doing everything in my power to avoid pain.

Katherine Bouglai:

When you are type four, sometime you can jump into type seven and the other way around. So, we do have that connection.

Kathy Clayton:

Absolutely. And that’s one of those things that it’s not obvious when you look at the Enneagram, because there’s no overt connection between type seven and four, but there’s what we call a hidden line. It actually then creates another triangle of one, four, seven. And we’re getting into a much more complex layer of the Enneagram, introducing this aspect of it.

It’s called one of the harmony triads, but it’s a way of recognizing that on the Enneagram, even though there are nine distinct types, they are all connected to each other in one shape or form, or another. And that’s what makes it so powerful, is that we have all of these different aspects in us. And really the power of the Enneagram, is how do you meet yourself where you are from a place of kindness and compassion, quite frankly, from a place of acceptance.

Katherine Bouglai:

Yes.

Kathy Clayton:

Recognizing that acceptance doesn’t mean you like it. It just means it’s true. And the power of acceptance is that once you move into that place, you then have choice. You then get to choose what your next step is and how you want to respond to life. And it allows you to keep growing as a human being. I think that’s the thing that I love most about the Enneagram is, it’s not just a snapshot in time. It actually recognizes who you are as a human being and who you’ve been your whole life, so that you can now have a very conscious and intentional path forward.

Katherine Bouglai:

Yes, absolutely. And it’s a good reminder because it’s so easy to focus on the negative and what you don’t have, “And oh, I wish I was more like that and not like me. Oh, I wish I had those skills and not the ones that I have.” Instead of just embracing what you have and think about where can I go from here.

Kathy Clayton:

Correct.

Katherine Bouglai:

So, what I want to talk about now is how different types and different styles show up at work in your career. So, going back to type four, because having those relationships and connections with people are very important to me, that’s usually the first thing I would look at, at a job or when I used to work in corporate. Now, of course, with all the personality types put together, I discovered that I’m much better off as an entrepreneur. That’s why I have my own business instead.

Katherine Bouglai:

But really in the past, looking back, the first thing that would make me quit a job is if the work environment wasn’t working for me. So, and of course, on the other hand, whenever the work environment was great, like the situation with Disney, for example, I loved it so much and I was so happy because we were like a big family with our team, but there were other things that were missing that I simply ignored. There was lack of growth, and that’s what ultimately caused the layoff.

So, it’s important to look at all the six pillars and not just the ones that are important to you, but also the ones that are important in general that you may not notice, but other people will because it’s important to them.

Kathy Clayton:

Mm-hmm (affirmative). Well, and what’s important to keep in mind is that it doesn’t matter what any type you are. Those six pillars matter across the board. And any type can get stuck. Any type is going to feel frustrated depending on what the circumstance is, it will show up differently for each type. And like you were saying at Disney, where you stayed too long, you had such great connection that, that mattered more to you than the other things.

Katherine Bouglai:

Yes.

Kathy Clayton:

That’s actually really great information for you. So, you recognize, “Okay, wait a second. It’s no longer okay, that I’m not getting paid enough, that I’m not being recognized.” All the different things that finally got you to recognize, “Okay, it’s time to move on.” But now you have an opportunity to make sure that you’re getting your connection need met, and maybe that’s through work, maybe that’s through personal, maybe it’s through extracurricular activities, which we are not really doing right now, but we’ll resume at some point. Once you recognize that the core things that you need, then all of a sudden you can make it happen.

So, I’ll give you an example. As a seven, what sevens avoid most is feeling trapped, especially feeling trapped in pain. And pain can show up in a lot of different ways. And if I feel like I don’t have any options, I am out of there. I remember working, this was in my early twenties, and I was working for a temp agency, and I was doing mostly clerical work, and it was horrible. And I just, I didn’t know how I was going to get out of there. And the first job I could take, which was waiting tables, I got out of there, because all of a sudden I had the change that I wanted. I had lots of activity. I had lots of people. But I wasn’t doing the same thing over and over, which was being trapped in pain.

And so, by understanding what your inner wiring is, you then get to make different choices. And that’s ultimately what this comes down to, is you get to choose what you want your life to be, not be back on your heels, always in reaction.

Katherine Bouglai:

Mm-hmm (affirmative). Yeah. So, Kathy, I think we have time to go over each type and maybe talk about a different situation in the workplace, what each type would prefer as an ideal work environment and what would make them leave. We possibly could be speculating, but I’m assuming we are at least somewhat in the ballpark.

Kathy Clayton:

I’m going to actually start at the very top and start at nine, the mediator diplomats. And oftentimes the name of the type is a giveaway for where you’re going to find them. Nines are the people who work really well at bringing other people to the table. And I think about nines, they are often the reluctant leader, but they’re very good at it, because nines want to make sure that everyone has a seat at the table. They want to make sure that everyone is heard from.

But nines have a tendency to forget their own point of view. They fall asleep to themselves. What nines to recognize is, it’s not an either/or, that it’s either everyone else’s perspective or my perspective, it’s their perspective and my perspective. So, it becomes an and/also.

Again, any environment can attract any of the nine types, but what the nine will do is they’re going to really make sure that all perspectives are heard. They’re going to make sure that conflict is smoothed over. They’re going to be the people who are going to facilitate those hard conversations. Now, the irony is they’re going to avoid conflict themselves like the plague, but there they can help others move through conflict.

Katherine Bouglai:

My husband comes to mind. And I love nines by the way. I just, right now I am so inspired by their ability. I have one client, I think he’s a nine, and one time he described himself, “I am very good at herding cats.” And my husband is very similar, he has a very similar personality. And when we read about nine in that book, he said, “Oh my gosh, it is so me that it’s scary.” And we have a really good dynamic because what I’m hearing in this is nines are really good at delegating tasks, which is very similar to the style S of the DiSC. But I will mention that your Enneagram type and the DiSC style are two different things. So, let’s not collapse them. There are a lot of similarities to them, but they’re not the same.

Kathy Clayton:

Mm-hmm (affirmative). And that’s true for so many of the assessments out there, that essentially every assessment is like the blind men approaching the elephant. You’re going to have a particular perspective depending on where you enter in on the elephant. And it’s all going to be accurate, but it’s not necessarily going to be a hundred percent complete. And so, it is important to recognize that part of it.

Katherine Bouglai:

Yeah, absolutely.

Kathy Clayton:

Now, one last thing about the mediator is that these are very friendly, amiable people. They get along. They bring people to the table. They’re generally really fun, easy people to be around.

Katherine Bouglai:

Yeah. Who wouldn’t want to have a nine on their team?

Kathy Clayton:

Absolutely. Now, one of the challenges is that because nines fall asleep to themselves, they de-value themselves. They think that they’re not contributing much, that they’re not that important. And the irony is, because they believe it, other people start to believe it. And so, nines need to learn how to own their agenda and really discover their own value.

Katherine Bouglai:

Yeah, absolutely.

Kathy Clayton:

Now, moving on to ones, ones are, as it says, the perfectionist and the idealist. And these are the people who want to make the world a better place. And you will almost always recognize the one, oftentimes because of their stature, they hold themselves very upright. They oftentimes have very good posture. Ones also have very high expectations of others. They have even higher expectations of themselves. And they hold themselves to an almost impossible standard. But these are the people who drive forward the ideals. These are the people who are committed to making the world a better, fair or more just society. And they’re going to do whatever it takes to make it happen.

The downside is, is that you can oftentimes feel very judged by a one, because they have an opinion about how everything and everyone should be doing it, whatever it is. That can create some resistance with the one, because it’s like, “Well, I don’t want to be judged by that person.”

For the one, they have to learn that it’s okay to let their standards down a little bit, which is like telling them, “Don’t breathe.” It can be very challenging for them. The idea that what if everything was perfect exactly as it is, which quite frankly, is galling to the one, because it’s like, “How dare you tell me everything is perfect? No, no, it could be more perfect. It could be better.” And so, the journey for the one is learning how to quiet that inner critic and just allow life to happen.

Kathy Clayton:

Now, we were just in the body center, which was all about gut instinct and who has a, “Are things fair and just?” And it’s a very kinesthetic way. And so, there’s a very strong connection to the body. Now, moving into types, two, three, and four, we move into the heart center. Katherine, this is the center that you live in, and this is all about connection and emotion approval.

The interesting thing about any of the heart types is that their identity doesn’t always feel stable, because the heart isn’t stable, the heart is always up and down, depending on what you’re feeling in the moment. And so, oftentimes the heart types think, “Oh I’m feeling sad, therefore I must be a sad person.” Or, “I’m feeling ecstatic, therefore I’m an ecstatic person.” So, things are all over the place.

Kathy Clayton

For the two, named the giver and the mentor, this is the type that instinctively, intuitively knows what other people need, and they strive to meet those needs, which can be amazing because two is our incredible nurses and caregivers, oftentimes can be the mother. It can be the father. I mean, it can be men and women are type two. But that’s a double-edged sword because sometimes it can be intrusive, because the two oftentimes doesn’t know what they need. They have an expectation of, “Well, if I give you what you need, you’ll then give me what I need.” Which can feel sticky and icky. With the two, it can be a little bit of push pull.

For the two to really learn how to be self centered is so important, to really understand, “Well, what do I need as the two, what are my wants and needs?” And then to meet those while being in service to other people.

Kathy Clayton:

Now, the three, we recognize threes because boy, do we reward three. These are the performers and the achievers. And we hold these people up as the greatest and the superstars. And the downside is that while they get a lot done, it comes at the expense of themselves, because they are always shapeshifting to meet the expectations of what others want. So, they have a hard time really knowing who are they? What is their own value? Because so often their value is connected to what they accomplish. And boy, we reward them, they get the high salary. They get the corner office. They get the nice car. But after a while, that can feel really empty. And so for the three, it’s so important to come back to, “Wait, what do I really want? What do I really value?

Speaking to the four, the romantic, the innovator, the four is so creative. And the four is in many ways the impact of the Enneagram, because the four feels so deeply what everyone else is feeling, that they’re able to sense into, what is the mood in the room, how to read that mood, how to work with that mood and even shift the mood to take it in a new direction.

The four can oftentimes be the canary in the coal mine, willing to state the thing that no one else is going to be courageous enough to state, because it has to be put out there. And as you’re nodding in recognition, there can be a downside to that too, because sometimes what is being stated isn’t necessarily what wants to be heard.

Katherine Bouglai:

Yep. Oh my gosh, I’m getting chills as you’re speaking. And I will say that Zoom is not the fours best friend.

Kathy Clayton:

Definitely not.

Katherine Bouglai:

Because you can’t… It’s hard to be empathic over Zoom.

Kathy Clayton:

It’s true.

Katherine Bouglai:

It’s not impossible, but it’s very hard. It’s just not the same as in real person. So, it’s been a challenge.

Kathy Clayton:

I believe that. And so, I think that’s why there’s going to be so many of us who are just hungry to get back out there and to engage, and interact. And I think we’re going to have a new appreciation for this connection once we’re back in person.

Now, leaving the heart center, we move over into the head center. And the head center is all about envisioning and planning, wanting to make sure that we’ve got certainty. The underlying emotions here are fear and anxiety. And so, these three types are really trying to figure out how to do this human interaction. Because oftentimes these three types feel like they’re aliens, trying to make sense of, “Well, how do humans actually do this thing?” Because all the energy for these types is in the head, that’s where the focus is.

The five is called the observer and the synthesizer. This is the headiest of the three head types. And the five wants to be furthest removed from everything, so that they can look out into the world and sense everything that is going on. They don’t want to be overwhelmed by emotion. These are the people most often, you’re going to find in the more analytical environments. It could be engineering. These are the people who are going to be most removed from society, oftentimes. These are going to be the hermits. So, these people tend to be highly introverted, and do best in jobs that don’t require a lot of interaction with others. But if that interaction is required, it needs to be data oriented, not emotionally oriented, because these types will overwhelm quickly, if there’s too much emotional intensity.

Kathy Clayton:

Now the six, the six is interesting because while still in the head center, the six is doing this back and forth dance of, “Well, can I trust myself? Can I trust someone else? Or, can I trust who’s the boss? Can I not trust who the boss is? Oh, I don’t know if I can be okay here, but I really want to be part of the team and I really want to be contributing, but is it safe?” And so, what sixes do, they are identifying what are all the possible downsides? What are the worst case scenarios? And they’re going to imagine everything that could go wrong, so that they can be prepared and solve for it.

I think of a client who used to work for the American Red Cross, and she was part of the disaster recovery team. And she told me about when we had the Oso landslide seven years ago, she was one of the first teams on site. They knew exactly what to do because they had already brainstormed every possible downside that could happen in any kind of possible natural disaster in the State of Washington, so that they could be prepared for it.

Sometimes these people can really bug others, because it seems like they’re always negative, but they’re not. They’re actually looking for what can they be positive about by identifying all the ways things could go wrong, and then being prepared for it. So, these are the troubleshooters. You want these people around because they’re going to be the ones that say, “Oh, wait a second, you’ve missed this point. We need to make sure that we take care of that.”

Kathy Clayton:

Now, almost diametrically opposed, moving up to seven, sevens are oftentimes the most upbeat, happiest of the nine types. And I hesitate to use the word happy because sometimes that happy can be misconstrued. Because while the six is the loyal skeptic and the partner, the seven is the epicure and the futurist. The seven wants to have fun. They want to sample all the life has to offer. And they want a taste of this and a taste of this, and squirrel.

They can get totally distracted by bright, shiny object syndrome, because they don’t want to be bored, because boredom equals pain and equal stuck. And so, sevens are going to do everything in their power to keep the energy up, to keep the momentum going. And sevens actually bring in this ability to create a mental structure of how things are connected, so that they provide a very big picture sense of where are we going? Just don’t ask the seven to do anything detail oriented. They can do it a little bit, but they don’t want to get bogged down in that.

Kathy Clayton:

Moving into the eight. This is the body center. So, let me talk a little bit about the body center. I talked a bit about it, but it’s about who has power and control. Are they using it justly? How to move some things forward? And the eight is what we call the gut of the gut. This is the protector and the advocate. And these people operate on instinct. And they are going to just immediately jump in. If they see someone getting bullied, they’re going to come to their protection.

These are the people who stand up for others. And they’re going to advocate for what they believe is right and just. Just don’t ask an aid to show their soft underbelly, because they’re going to avoid vulnerability at all costs, because it feels dangerous. They can protect others, but oftentimes they don’t feel like they can protect themselves.

And so, these are going to be very powerful team leaders. These are the people that come in and they know what to do. And I think about one client, who she is right often enough of the time, that she thinks she’s right all of the time. And so, it takes a lot of courage to stand up to her and say, “Hey, wait a second, slow down. We don’t have enough evidence.” Or, “Let’s sleep on that decision.” And so, eight actually needs some good counterbalances to help them stay grounded and connected, and to help them really tune in to what is going on around them. So, that was a very fast spin around the Enneagram.

Katherine Bouglai:

What I really find fascinating about the Enneagram, is not just the type that I am, and I’m sure many listeners could identify, it’s not about just your type, but it’s also other type, knowing other people in your life. And I am sure as you were describing each type, somebody you know, or the boss, or a relative, or a friend would come to mind. There’s a picture. So, really understanding what other people are thinking, especially people who think differently, and having that compassion, and having acceptance is what’s going to make the relationships happen. And this is especially true with DiSC as well. I want to talk about DiSC a little bit.

So, with DiSC, the difference is that you are not stuck with the same style all your life. A lot of people change depending on the situation where they’re in, who they’re talking to, the work environment. And different people based on their styles, you sometimes change your style when you communicate with one person versus somebody else. And it’s really helpful to understand where each style is coming from-

Kathy Clayton:

Yes.

Katherine Bouglai:

… not just how they show up to you. So, if somebody shows up too aggressively in your face or too bossy, or too micromanaging, really the challenge is, is to just stay back a little bit, and instead of judging them or reacting to them, think about, “Well, what is important to them? What are they really looking for? How can I show up to this person, so that they hear me, they see the value that I bring, and they also get their needs met, so that there is no conflict, but instead there is a mutual understanding?” Because each type and each style bring value to the table. There is no such a thing as a bad style or a good style, or a bad type. We all have our gold that we can share as long as we all get heard.

So, with the DiSC, again, there is D, and it’s an acronym, so it makes it easy. D stands for dominance, directness, and also doer. People who are D style, they’re very direct, they’re very action oriented and they’re very much results oriented people. And it’s usually what types come to mind, is type one, type three and type eight. Although, as I mentioned before, any Enneagram type can be a D, is just those three are most likely to show those qualities.

Kathy Clayton:

Absolutely. And one of the things that I love about the Enneagram is that it’s based on triads. And that initial triad, I’ll give a quick showing of the centers of intelligence, is that this is the first set of triads, whether it’s the head, heart or body, where you reside. But then there are multiple triads that show up. And so, I’m thinking, as you’re talking about types three, seven, and eight, these are called the assertive types. And these three types are pushing aside emotion, especially hard, negative emotion to get the job done, to move something forward. So, they will often show up as a D on the DiSC.

Katherine Bouglai:

Yeah, because Ds, usually they will have emotions. They are emotional. Both Ds and Is are more emotional. But Ds are very good at putting emotions aside and focusing on the task.

Kathy Clayton:

And so, that would definitely show up as type three, seven and eight on the Enneagram, and oftentimes one, but that’s going to be more situationally dependent.

Katherine Bouglai:

Yeah. A lot of times one can also be C, but we haven’t gotten there yet. So, but it makes sense. I stands for influencer. They love motivating others. So, they’re very people oriented as opposed to D. D’s weaknesses, each style is driven by something, by a fear that makes them stronger. For example, for D the biggest weaknesses, they don’t want to be incompetent. They don’t want to show up as incompetent. So, they compensate by being very competent and very productive.

Kathy Clayton:

That would also then include types one, three, and five, because that’s part of the competency-based triad. And these three types are going to push aside any of those negative emotions to get the job done. So, it’s interesting the overlap.

Katherine Bouglai:

Yeah. I’m thinking five would also be more of a classic C. So Is are very emotional, and they are probably the most emotional of the four, because they also, when they have strong emotions coming up, they cannot just put them aside and focus on the job. They have to process everything. And when they are emotionally ready, then they come back and be productive again.

Kathy Clayton:

Okay. In that case for the Is, I would identify types four, six, and eight, because these are part of the reactive triad. And these three types are going to have an intense, emotional reaction, no matter what is going on. And all three types need to feel met in their emotions in order to move forward. So, very interesting.

Katherine Bouglai:

Yes. And eights are often D, I, so they have both D and I, and sometimes fours are also, but I and my second one is D. Because all four, again, it’s not just one, but the combination of them that really can show the whole picture. What else? So, innovative, and also they’re emotional. And sevens can be Is as well, because sevens they’re all about having fun, bringing everybody together. And they can be very extroverted. Although, again, I wouldn’t collapse the two, you can be both introvert and extrovert, but most likely Is are extroverted because they love being around people and having that connection. And they’re also about motivating people to do something.

Kathy Clayton:

And that makes sense. And so, I can see sevens are popcorn thinkers. They’re great at brainstorming. And two, seven and nine could possibly fit into this category as well, because these are the positive outlook types. And they’re going to spin for the positive. They’re going to look for that silver lining. What’s going to be good about the next thing that we’re moving toward?

Katherine Bouglai:

And also the empathic part and caring about others, which both twos and nines have, which can also be relative to nine. What motivates I, they want to be liked by people. So, the biggest fear of an I is not to be liked by their peers. So, they will do everything to be, not just to be… I mean, it’s not about being a center of attention, but to be liked and to be recognized.

Kathy Clayton:

Then that squarely puts Is often in the heart center, because that’s all about image and wanting to be liked. And type twos, have a belief that they can get anyone to like them.

Katherine Bouglai:

And sometimes they’re right. Don’t you love twos?

Kathy Clayton:

Absolutely.

Katherine Bouglai:

I have a couple of people in my life, oh my gosh, they will have a party and everybody will show up. You know that’s a two.

Kathy Clayton:

Mm-hmm (affirmative). Absolutely.

Katherine Bouglai:

All right. Moving on to Ss. S stands for steady, system. S people are very much, they love stability. Yeah. That’s it, stability. They’re all about stability. And again, the type nine is most likely to be an S, like I said before, because they are great mediators. They are, again, good with people. So, both I and S what they have in common is they’re more people oriented, versus D and C are more action and task oriented.

So, an S person, unlike I though, they are not as emotional, they’re more steady on their emotions, but they’re also very… They avoid conflict at all costs, but they are really good at managing people, delegating tasks, but also being at the same time being on the people’s side, so being the good boss. Versus the D boss, the boss that has the stereotype of being a bad boss, that everybody hates, which in reality is not true. I have worked with plenty of people who were D and they’re not evil, trust me.

Katherine Bouglai:

But the thing, the difference, so D and S, they’re almost like opposite. And to be a really effective and good manager, you have to have both. So, it is possible to develop other quality of another style, if you want to, if this is what you really want to do, because you want to be better at something. You can develop those qualities. So, when you have both D, which is more task oriented and goal oriented, and knows where the company is heading and what goals we need to meet, so you have to have that for the effective leadership. And at the same time, having an S factor, which makes you really good at understanding people, kind of herding cats.

Finally, let’s talk about a C, Kathy, within forces being so far ahead. So, C is actually a perfectionist. C stands for conscientious, although it’s not my favorite word to describe a C, but it is a word that starts with a C, and that’s what they use, but what it really stands for very analytical and very much fact oriented people. So, C people, they make good engineers, but they also make really great detectives and investigators, because they’re very, very detail oriented. And just like D, they are more task oriented rather than people oriented. They want to keep emotions aside. So, I’m thinking of type five, definitely. And the perfectionist of type one-

Kathy Clayton:

Definitely.

Katherine Bouglai:

… can really very likely to be a C. They want to check all the facts and they want to make sure everything is correct. They’re going to take their time to release something because they want to make sure that it’s done right. So, unlike D, who will push the release day because, “Hey, we need to get it done. We have a deadline. Let’s release it now and fix it later.” For a C, that’s like, “Oh, no, no, no, no, no, we can’t release it right away because we need to make sure that it’s tested, that everything is working.” So, they’re more slow pace. Again, both S and C are slow pace, versus I and D are very fast pace. They love, they thrive in a fast pace environment.

Kathy Clayton:

That makes a lot of sense. And I would definitely put one and five in that category, sometimes six, sometimes nine. A lot of what you’re talking about, isn’t going to necessarily be specifically identified on the Enneagram.

Well, something I wanted to come back to, which I thought was interesting, is that you commented that people can change their type on the disc. That it’s a more fluid system.

Katherine Bouglai:

Yes.

Kathy Clayton:

Whereas with the Enneagram, my belief is that basically when sperm meets egg, type is born. And that we can morph and take on different characteristics, but we really are one type. I’ve been getting a lot of thought to this, because I think about myself, and I think about other people who, like talking with parents and looking at their children and how they have shown up in the womb, and that kind of thing.

And again, this is my opinion more than fact, because we can’t always know where these things originate. But the distinction is that a person is one type throughout their life. They can take on other type characteristics as they grow and develop, but that’s different than the DiSC, where you’ve got a lot of fluidity. And that’s what I think is quite interesting is that distinction.

Katherine Bouglai:

Yeah. Yeah. With the DiSC, you learn, you change your preferences about your work environment, and that could influence it a lot. You grow. And then it also depends on your environment. So for example, if you are talking to somebody who is more on the timid side, that’s going to naturally make you come across as more direct and vice-a-versa.

Kathy Clayton:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Katherine Bouglai:

And with the DiSC, it’s important to understand where this other style is coming from. It’s also easy to spot other styles. And I wouldn’t, I’ve guessed other people’s types before and I was wrong. So, I’m going to try not to venture that and just be open, “Oh, you could be this. Or you could be that.” But with a DiSC, it’s usually when you first meet the person, you can spot what their style is and not afraid to be wrong, because their style with you, what you’re going to see is what’s going to show up in their communication with you. And they may be different with other people.

Kathy Clayton:

And that makes a lot of sense, because we’re always influenced by the people we’re interacting with in the moment.

Katherine Bouglai:

Yeah. Exactly.

Kathy Clayton:

Well, and speaking to your observation about typing other people, I always caution folks about that, because we can never know someone’s internal experience of life, what’s going on for them. And so like you, as often as I think, “Oh, I know this person is a seven or a one.” I’m just as often wrong. And so, I’ve really put aside this idea that I know what another person is, and instead invite them to discover what their type is. Because quite frankly, no one likes to be told what they are.

Katherine Bouglai:

No, but it’s fun to discover.

Kathy Clayton:

It totally is fun. And I agree with you on that.

Katherine Bouglai:

Yeah. And then one last thing about C, we didn’t talk about biggest fear, and that’s to be wrong about something.

Kathy Clayton:

That’s definitely a type one.

Katherine Bouglai:

Even though they’re not emotional, they love to be appreciated, because they often feel underappreciated. A typical C, they would also make really good editors, because you will recognize a C when they look at a document, they will notice every typo. So, while everybody else will read the content of an article or a document, or something, a C person will spot every typo in the document and like, “Oh, they forgot to put a comma here.” Well, somebody else may say, “Well, who cares?” And that’s probably the worst thing you can tell a C because they’re used to hearing that a lot. So, it is a good idea to have a C on your side, somebody who can check your spelling.

Kathy Clayton:

Absolutely.

Katherine Bouglai:

Yep. Kathy, thank you so much. Thank you so much for being a guest on this show for mountain of gold of information.

Kathy Clayton:

Well, I am happy to talk Enneagram any time. Thank you so much for inviting me to participate. I’m looking forward to hearing this show.

Katherine Bouglai:

Thank you, everybody for listening. Kathy, could you, again, tell us your website, how, if anybody wants to hear more about the Enneagram or talk to you, how can they find you?

Kathy Clayton:

Absolutely. My Enneagram, my type is seven. My website is kathyclayton.com. That’s Kathy with a K, Clayton with a C. You can easily reach me at kathy@kathyclayton.com. All my contact information is available at my website. And I’d love to have a conversation with everyone.

Katherine Bouglai:

Awesome. And I am Katherine Bouglai, the owner of Blossom Career, and you can find me at blossomcareer.com. I have this special called Career Clarity session, where I combine both DiSC assessment and your six pillar evaluation to help you understand, and see what went wrong in your current or past work environment. And it works really, really well for people, especially who got recently laid off or have some emotional charge about their current or their last job. So, that will help you get clarity, close the chapter and figure out what’s next for you.

Thank you for joining me for this episode of Conversations with Blossom Career. For more information on career transitions, visit my website, blossomcareer.com to find lots of resources on career coaching, resumes, LinkedIn, and more. If you’re interested in exploring what your future career might look like, feel free to schedule a complimentary discovery call with me. I’ll see you next time.

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